Reading references: I–V identify the five chapters. Page references use the Walter Scott edition reproduced in Project Gutenberg eBook 34901, with W. L. Courtney’s introduction dated 1901; they are not the pagination of the 1859 first edition. The work was written in English, so no translator is involved. Examples, objections, and contemporary applications are editorial unless explicitly attributed.
Orientation
Your neighbors think your favorite music is vulgar. They would like you to stop listening to it. You listen through headphones; nobody else has to hear it. Should their certainty about good taste give them authority over your evening?
Now change one fact: you play it through speakers at three in the morning, keeping them awake. The question has changed. Their complaint concerns something you are doing to them.
Mill’s On Liberty asks how to distinguish these situations, including cases much harder than noisy music. His central proposal is that preventing harm to others can justify compulsion; making an adult live better, by someone else’s standard, cannot by itself justify it. He applies the question to public opinion as well as government.
He also gives freedom a positive purpose. Open discussion helps people correct errors and understand their beliefs. Choosing a way of life develops judgment. Different lives can disclose possibilities that a uniform society would never discover.
The lasting question: When does concern for another person become an unjustified claim to control them?
The essential limit: Mill’s boundary needs interpretation. Harm, consent, obligation, and capacity are difficult concepts, and the book makes exceptions that strain its own principle. Its defense of freedom also contains a colonial exclusion we should reject rather than conceal. I; IV; V.
Core lesson
The problem of authority
Civil or social liberty concerns the limits of power over a person’s thought and conduct. Mill is asking what other people may legitimately require of you. He sets aside the different question of whether human choices are determined by prior causes. I, opening paragraph.
An elected government does not make this problem disappear. A majority can impose on a minority, and the people wielding power are not identical with everyone affected by it. A decision can have popular support and still require justification.
Mill also worries about social tyranny: pressure from prevailing opinion that punishes people for departing from an accepted pattern. Nobody needs to pass a law if dissent already costs someone their livelihood or their place in a community. I, pp. 6–9; II, pp. 57–60.
Our opening music example introduces the distinction. Calling a taste unattractive is one thing; trying to make an adult abandon it through punishment is another. Mill’s subject includes this second kind of interference even when the punishment is informal.
Harm principle
The harm principle is Mill’s proposed limit on compulsion: society may interfere with an adult’s liberty to prevent harm to others, but the person’s own physical or moral good is not, by itself, sufficient justification. I, pp. 17–20.
Two terms help make this precise. Paternalism is overriding someone’s choice for that person’s supposed benefit. Moralism, in this discussion, is imposing a standard because an activity is considered morally wrong, without an adequate further account of harm to others.
Suppose an adult chooses an unfashionable, demanding hobby. A friend can explain its costs, recommend another pursuit, or offer help. Those responses leave room for a decision. Threatening punishment until the person complies claims a different authority. Mill requires a justification beyond I know what is good for you.
This does not make every harmful action automatically punishable. In chapter V, Mill explicitly says that damage or its probability does not always justify interference. Regulation itself can do harm, and legitimate activities can disappoint other people. Winning a competitive examination means someone else loses; that loss does not establish wrongdoing. Fraud or force changes the case. V, pp. 177–180.
The question therefore has two stages: Is there an adequate reason to consider interference? Would this particular interference be justified? Naming harm starts the inquiry; it does not finish it.
Self-regarding conduct and obligations
Self-regarding conduct principally concerns the person choosing it, or other adults participating freely without deception. Other-regarding conduct affects interests of other people in ways that can make the actor accountable. These are distinctions within Mill’s argument, not a claim that anyone lives in complete isolation. I, pp. 21–23; IV.
He anticipates the objection that almost everything affects someone. A person’s wasteful spending can distress a family. An unhealthy habit can reduce their ability to contribute. If every indirect consequence authorized control, however, the protected sphere of life would vanish.
Mill draws attention to definite damage, risk, and specific obligations. He distinguishes being drunk from being drunk while carrying out a public duty. He also distinguishes extravagance from failing to support a family or pay a debt because resources have been diverted. Accountability attaches to the duty violated. IV, pp. 150–155.
Our editorial example: A parent buys an expensive instrument after meeting the household’s agreed needs. Relatives dislike the purchase. That disagreement alone does not establish a duty breached. If the parent spends money needed for a dependent child’s food, a concrete obligation is involved. Calling the purchase “personal” cannot make the child disappear from the analysis.
Mill also allows certain positive duties: giving evidence in court, contributing a fair share to collective protection, and, in clear and grave cases, helping prevent injury. His principle does not mean I owe nothing because I did not strike the first blow. I, pp. 20–21.
Free discussion
Fallibility means being capable of error. Mill’s defense of discussion begins with the difference between admitting this abstractly and keeping one’s own beliefs open to correction.
Silencing an opinion can deprive people of a truth. If the opinion is false, engaging with it can still clarify why a better belief is justified. If competing views each contain part of the truth, excluding one can preserve the other’s incompleteness. II, pp. 30–38, 84–89, 97–98.
Mill is not saying that confidence is forbidden. His distinction is between acting on a judgment that remains open to challenge and using confidence to prevent the challenge from being heard.
Our editorial example: A team believes its design is reliable. One engineer disputes an assumption. The team can test the objection and reject it for good reasons. If it instead forbids anyone to raise that concern, its assurance depends partly on excluding a possible correction.
The engineer’s minority status does not make the engineer right. Nor does the majority’s confidence answer the objection. The argument concerns how a belief earns and retains warranted confidence.
Living conviction and dead dogma
A dead dogma is a belief repeated without an adequate grasp of its meaning or reasons. Mill argues that even a true belief can be held this way when nobody seriously examines it. II, pp. 64–83.
Someone says equal treatment matters but cannot explain what should happen when equal treatment and a person’s particular needs seem to conflict. Hearing a serious challenge may force them to understand what their principle actually requires.
That is our teaching example. Mill’s broader point is that possessing the right sentence and understanding the thought are different achievements. He treats comprehension of reasons and the belief’s effect on conduct as distinct benefits of discussion.
This does not require manufacturing falsehoods or pretending settled evidence is evenly divided. Mill acknowledges the value of truths becoming generally accepted. He proposes recreating the intellectual work of answering objections when actual controversy has subsided. A teacher can explain why an attractive mistake fails without endorsing it. II, pp. 80–84.
Individuality and experiments of living
Individuality is the development of a person’s capacities through their own judgment, desires, and choices. Experiments of living are different ways people try to organize their lives, within the constraints owed to others. Mill argues that such variation benefits both individuals and a society capable of learning from them. III, pp. 103–110, 119–128.
His reasoning goes beyond different people like different things:
- Choosing exercises observation, discrimination, planning, and self-control.
- Having a good path selected for you need not develop those capacities.
- A customary path may embody useful experience yet fit your circumstances poorly.
- Different paths can reveal goods or possibilities others overlooked.
- Uniformity can suppress these opportunities before anyone learns what was lost.
Our editorial example: One adult wants a demanding public career. Another wants quieter work and time to make music. Either life could be thoughtfully chosen. Requiring both to pursue the same ambition would confuse a shared measure of prestige with a universal account of flourishing.
Mill does not require originality in every action. Traditions can be evidence worth considering, and freely choosing a conventional life can express judgment. He objects to treating custom as a substitute for deciding. He also refuses to grant exceptional people a right to force others along their preferred path. III, pp. 108–110, 124–125.
Why liberty serves well-being
Utility, in Mill’s ethical framework, concerns what contributes to well-being. Here he explicitly appeals to long-term human interests, including the development of human capacities, rather than grounding his case in rights wholly independent of consequences. I, p. 19.
That makes freedom more than permission for immediate pleasure. A choice might be difficult, disappointing, or mistaken while the broader freedom to choose supports learning and development. Society also loses something when it prevents people from discovering better ways of living.
His claim is ambitious. It asks us to value the development of judgment and individuality, and to believe that protecting them generally serves human interests. Those are philosophical commitments and claims about consequences that deserve assessment. The book’s eloquence does not establish how every proposed policy would work.
What the argument adds up to
Mill connects a limit on authority with an account of what freedom makes possible. People can correct beliefs, understand reasons, develop capacities, and learn from different lives. Government and public opinion can obstruct those goods when they treat a preferred pattern as everyone’s obligation.
The practical test is to identify the conduct, the affected person, the interest or obligation at stake, and the proposed response. We can defend freedom while expecting honesty, care, and responsibility toward others. The next question is whether the boundary can hold under pressure.
Deep exploration
A map of the five chapters
| Chapter | Task in the argument | Question to keep beside it |
|---|---|---|
| I · Introductory | Introduces collective authority, social tyranny, and the principle limiting compulsion. | Does the reason offered concern another person’s interests, or a wish to improve the chooser? |
| II · Of the Liberty of Thought and Discussion | Defends discussion through correction, partial truth, understanding, and conviction. | What would make this belief answerable to criticism? |
| III · Of Individuality, as One of the Elements of Well-Being | Connects chosen lives with development and social learning. | What capacities are exercised by making the choice? |
| IV · Of the Limits to the Authority of Society over the Individual | Examines accountability, disapproval, duties, and indirect consequences. | Which obligation or interest makes the case other-regarding? |
| V · Applications | Tests the framework through trade, danger, contracts, family power, education, and government activity. | Does the application fit the announced principle, or expose a limit? |
The final chapter supplies specimens of application rather than a complete political program. It also distinguishes some questions about government provision from direct infringements of liberty. Treating all government activity as one issue would erase a distinction Mill himself makes.
Speech can also be an action
At the beginning of chapter III, Mill contrasts publishing the opinion that grain dealers deprive poor people of food with delivering that opinion to an excited crowd outside a dealer’s house. The same proposition has a different role in the second situation: its expression can instigate a harmful act. III, pp. 103–104.
A corn-dealer in this passage is a trader in grain; “corn” is not restricted to the modern American meaning of maize. Keeping the setting in view prevents the example from becoming an unexplained slogan about speech.
Mill’s distinction invites attention to audience, circumstances, and what an utterance is doing. It does not supply the elements of a modern legal test. Neither “speech can harm” nor “this is only an opinion” settles every case.
Our contemporary application: A general criticism of a business and a message directing an angry group toward an identifiable person require different assessments. We would need facts about what was said, the audience, the circumstances, and the connection to threatened harm. The application is ours, not a claim that Mill wrote a policy for online platforms.
There is a further qualification in his chapter II footnote about instigation of tyrannicide: there he requires an overt act and a probable connection to the instigation before punishment. The text contains more than one discussion of the boundary. We should preserve the qualification rather than claim one example settles his account of all dangerous expression. II, footnote 6 in this edition.
Disapproval is not automatically oppression
People have liberty to evaluate one another too. Mill allows advice, warning, unfavorable assessments, and choosing one’s companions. He distinguishes consequences incidental to others exercising their own freedom from suffering deliberately inflicted as punishment for someone’s personal choices. IV, pp. 143–150; V, pp. 177–178.
Editorial illustration: You need not become friends with someone whose pastimes you dislike. But organizing a campaign to deprive that person of unrelated opportunities solely to force a change in harmless tastes makes a claim to police their life.
This boundary is difficult. A refusal to associate may protect a legitimate interest, impose a punishment, or do both. Mill’s distinction does not make intention easy to determine. Consequences matter as well: many individual refusals can produce severe exclusion even without centralized planning.
The strongest question is therefore more specific than Am I allowed to disapprove? Ask what you are withholding, why, whether it belongs to a relationship you may choose, and whether the response seeks protection or compliance. Mill gives resources for this inquiry without eliminating its hard cases.
What counts as harm?
If harm includes every disappointment or offense, almost anything becomes controllable. If harm includes only direct physical injury, fraud, exploitation, and breaches of important duties can disappear from view.
Mill’s discussions refer to interests, rights, definite damage, risk, and assignable obligations. He rejects a supposed right to require everyone else’s moral perfection. But he does not give a complete independent account of which interests deserve protection or what risk is sufficient. IV, pp. 140–155, 167–170; V, pp. 177–180.
Our difficult case: Many people make small contributions to pollution. No single contribution causes all the damage. A theory that requires one readily identifiable victim and one decisive action could miss the cumulative harm. A theory that accepts any distant possibility could authorize almost unlimited restrictions.
A responsible application needs evidence about contribution, severity, probability, available alternatives, and the costs of intervention. The principle organizes those questions; it cannot produce the facts for us. Nor does identifying an interest explain, by itself, which distribution of costs would be fair.
David O. Brink’s scholarly account of Mill identifies related difficulties concerning harm prevention, duties of assistance, and public goods. Different readings of the principle permit different interventions. That interpretive dispute is a reason to read the applications alongside the opening declaration. Further interpretive context.
The unsafe bridge: information and paternalism
Mill imagines someone attempting to cross a bridge known to be unsafe when there is no time to warn them. Stopping them can, he argues, serve their actual wish: they want to cross, not fall into the river. Where there is a risk rather than certainty and the person can reflect, he favors warning over forcibly preventing an informed choice. V, pp. 181–183.
This introduces a distinction between making a choice possible through information and overriding a choice because we dislike it. A warning label can support agency. An immediate interruption can create time to understand a danger.
But the bridge depends on assumptions about the person’s wishes and knowledge. Once the person understands the danger, the original justification may no longer apply. We should also distinguish an imprudent choice from an inability to decide: disagreement with an authority is not proof of incapacity.
The example gives Mill a more nuanced position than unconditional noninterference. It also leaves questions about impaired judgment, addiction, and uncertain understanding that the book cannot resolve for every case.
Can you freely give up freedom?
Mill rejects enforcing an agreement by which a person sells themselves into slavery. The reason for respecting choice is liberty; enforcing the permanent destruction of future liberty defeats that reason. V, pp. 194–196.
This is a serious difficulty for the simplest version of his principle. The agreement is described as voluntary, yet voluntariness does not settle enforceability. Is this an exception to the ban on paternalism, or a defense of continuing agency rather than any single moment’s decision? Either reading requires explaining more than consent makes it permissible.
The distinction can guide questions about long commitments without equating them with slavery. A job contract, a marriage, and a training commitment have different terms, exit possibilities, and effects on other people. Mill discusses reliance and obligations created by relationships; he does not think freedom to change one’s mind erases every consequence of having encouraged someone else to depend on you. V, pp. 196–198.
The useful question is how a commitment can remain meaningful without turning a past choice into unlimited authority over a future person.
Private life can contain someone else’s domination
An appeal to privacy can conceal power exercised within a household. Mill explicitly challenges husbands’ power over wives and the idea that a parent’s control over a child is merely the parent’s personal liberty. Acting for someone else concerns that person’s life. V, pp. 198–200.
He supports requiring children’s education while resisting a state monopoly over its provision. The distinction is between ensuring that children receive an education and making everyone receive one official model of thought. He permits public help with costs and imagines examinations that test knowledge of disputed positions without requiring belief in them. V, pp. 200–205.
These proposals deserve separate evaluation. His confidence in alternative providers and impartial examinations is not self-validating. An examination can enforce conformity too, and nominal choice does little if families lack realistic options.
Still, the underlying correction matters: a child is another person, not an extension of a parent’s sovereignty. Supporting adult freedom cannot settle what adults owe to children by treating the children’s interests as private property.
The colonial exclusion
In chapter I, Mill limits his principle to people capable of the kind of self-direction and discussion he envisages. He then extends the exception from children to peoples he describes as not yet developed, and permits despotism if it produces their improvement. I, pp. 18–19.
That claim belongs to the argument. Omitting it would make the work’s universal language look more consistent than it is. Chapter III also generalizes about Asian societies and presents China as an example of stagnation caused by enforced sameness. Those assertions should be examined as his historical judgments, not repeated as established descriptions of entire cultures. III, pp. 132–136.
Our evaluation: The exception gives an alleged improver authority to decide that other people are unready for the very freedom that could challenge that authority. It risks reproducing the confidence Mill criticizes elsewhere: we know what is good for them, and our judgment authorizes compulsion.
Capacity questions about an individual decision do not justify assigning whole populations permanent subordinate standing. A defensible contemporary account must scrutinize the evidence, who decides, safeguards against abuse, and the possibility of contesting the decision. Rejecting Mill’s exclusion is an editorial judgment; it should not be passed off as something the text already accomplishes.
Harriet Taylor Mill and the authorship question
The dedication credits Mill’s wife, Harriet Taylor Mill, as an intellectual contributor, saying the work belongs to her as well as to him. Her death preceded publication. Recognizing that credit matters in a catalogue of thinkers: the name on a title page need not exhaust the work’s intellectual history.
The precise division of authorship remains disputed. Dale E. Miller’s Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy account examines the dedication, autobiography, correspondence, and competing assessments. We can state Mill’s acknowledgment confidently without inventing which sentences or arguments Harriet wrote. Sources.
This edition’s introductory essay is by W. L. Courtney, not Mill, and includes Courtney’s own opinions about her contribution. Do not confuse that commentary with the author’s dedication or accept it as a neutral settlement of the dispute.
Does open discussion reliably produce truth?
Mill’s strongest claim is about preserving correction and understanding. A cruder claim would be that letting every opinion circulate guarantees the best one will win. He explicitly rejects the comforting idea that truth invariably survives persecution and acknowledges that free discussion can intensify partisanship. II, pp. 50–53, 96–97.
Even so, his hopes depend on people encountering arguments, considering them, and having some capacity to evaluate evidence. Those conditions can fail. Attention is limited. A well-funded repetition of a falsehood may reach more people than a careful correction. Threats can prevent participation even when the law permits speech.
These are editorial objections and questions for investigation, not empirical findings established by this lesson. They suggest that access, education, trustworthy evidence, and protection against intimidation matter alongside permission to speak.
The freedom to advance a claim also does not confer a right to anyone’s agreement, unlimited attention, or every venue. Applying Mill to editorial selection or platform design needs an account of those institutions’ roles. His 1859 work supplies questions, not a ready-made moderation system.
A worthwhile passage
“He who lets the world, or his own portion of it, choose his plan of life for him, has no need of any other faculty than the ape-like one of imitation.”
—Chapter III, p. 109, Walter Scott edition reproduced by Project Gutenberg.
The next sentences describe the faculties exercised by choosing: observing, reasoning, gathering information, discriminating, and sustaining a decision. The passage’s point is developmental. An outcome that looks respectable from outside may have cost its chooser the practice of judgment.
Read it together with Mill’s acknowledgment that inherited experience can be useful. It does not demand rejecting a custom merely because other people follow it.
Comparing the first four works
These are editorial comparisons of questions and arguments, not claims of documented influence.
| Work | What comes under examination | What Mill adds to the comparison |
|---|---|---|
| Nietzsche’s Genealogy | How values acquire authority and what they express or cost. | A test of when a value may legitimately be enforced on another person. Explaining a moral demand and justifying compulsion are separate tasks. |
| Freud’s Civilization and Its Discontents | How communal constraints and internal authority can generate guilt. | Reasons to protect chosen lives while enforcing duties needed for coexistence. A psychological cost does not settle whether a constraint is justified. |
| Jung’s Two Essays | How an identity can become captive to social roles or unconscious images. | An ethical and political case for developing judgment through choice. Individuation and individuality belong to different frameworks. |
Mill’s book predates all three of those works. It should not be narrated as his response to their later arguments. The comparison asks us to move from what a demand does psychologically to what authority it should have.
Misreadings to leave behind
- “The majority decides what freedom means.” Popular authorization does not eliminate Mill’s demand for limits on power.
- “Harm means anything that upsets me.” Offense, disappointment, damaged interests, and breached obligations need distinguishing.
- “Any harm automatically justifies a ban.” Mill asks whether the proposed intervention is justified and recognizes legitimate conflicts of interest.
- “My choice cannot involve duties to anyone else.” Dependents, promises, public obligations, and effects on others remain part of the analysis.
- “Every opinion is equally true.” Protection for inquiry differs from an assessment of credibility. Mill wants beliefs exposed to correction.
- “Individuality requires being unconventional.” A conventional life can be chosen thoughtfully; reflexive rebellion can imitate a different crowd.
- “Consent settles every case.” The slavery discussion tests the relationship between a present agreement and future agency.
- “Mill grants the same liberty to everyone.” His colonial exclusion obstructs that reading and requires criticism.
Test your understanding
- A town votes overwhelmingly to ban an adult’s harmless hobby. What has the vote established, and what has it failed to establish?
- Why can a challenge benefit someone whose belief is already true?
- How does spending money on an unpopular hobby differ from spending money owed for a dependent’s care?
- Does Mill’s grain-dealer example say that a proposition’s content alone determines whether its expression is protected?
- Why does selling oneself into slavery put pressure on a simple appeal to voluntary choice?
- What further questions should follow once a proposed activity is shown to risk harm to others?
Compare your reasoning
1. The vote establishes popular support. It does not establish legitimate authority over the hobby. Mill asks for a justification beyond collective dislike or a wish to improve the adult.
2. The challenge can clarify the grounds, limits, and meaning of the belief and help it guide conduct. This does not make the opposing belief equally credible or require keeping manufactured controversy alive.
3. The second choice breaches an obligation to another person. The first can remain a matter for the chooser if obligations are met. The hobby's popularity does not decide the duty.
4. No. Circumstances and the role of the expression matter. Publishing an opinion and instigating an excited crowd at a person's home can be different acts even when the proposition is the same.
5. Enforcing the agreement destroys the continuing freedom that makes voluntary choice valuable. We must explain the relation between current consent, future agency, and enforceability.
6. Ask how severe and probable the harm is, which interests or duties are involved, what evidence supports the claim, and whether the proposed response would protect people with acceptable costs. Harm does not automatically validate every restriction.
If you read only a little
This route uses chapters plus the printed page numbers embedded in the Gutenberg text. In another edition, use the subjects indicated; its page numbers may differ. Courtney’s introduction comes first, so scroll to Chapter I to begin Mill’s essay.
- I, pp. 6–9 and 17–23: Read the account of majority and social tyranny, then the harm principle and its qualifications. Keep the colonial exception beside the declaration of liberty.
- II, pp. 30–38 and 97–102: Read the opening argument for discussion, then its four concluding grounds and the ethics of controversy. Ask how willingness to hear objections differs from indecision.
- III, pp. 103–110: Read the grain-dealer example, experiments of living, and the faculties exercised by choosing. This connects the speech argument with the development of a person.
- IV, pp. 140–154: Read the account of obligations, permissible disapproval, and specific duties. Try stating the boundary without pretending people are isolated.
- V, pp. 177–184 and 194–205: Read why losses do not invariably justify interference, the unsafe bridge, slavery, and family and educational power. These cases expose the limits of a slogan.
If individuality is your main interest, continue III through pp. 119–139. Read critically: the praise of variety appears alongside sweeping judgments about cultures. If government provision is your interest, read the closing portion of V, which distinguishes that question from direct compulsion and examines concentrated administrative power.
Where to go next
Return to Jung on individuation to distinguish a theory of psychological integration from Mill’s account of chosen lives. Compare Freud’s superego with the authority of public opinion, then Nietzsche’s genealogy with Mill’s question about legitimate enforcement.
Before the next disagreement, try one concrete change: state exactly whose interest a proposed restriction protects and how. If the explanation reduces to they should live more like us, the case for authority has barely begun.
Sources
Primary text and edition: John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, originally published in London by John W. Parker and Son in 1859. This lesson reads the English text in Project Gutenberg eBook 34901, HTML reading edition. The reproduced imprint is The Walter Scott Publishing Co., Ltd., London and Felling-on-Tyne, with New York and Melbourne also listed. Its introduction by W. L. Courtney is dated July 5, 1901. The displayed title page does not supply a publication year for this printing; the introduction’s date must not be substituted for one. No translation is involved.
References: I–V identify Mill’s chapters. Pages identify the printed pagination reproduced by Gutenberg, not digital screen positions or pages in the 1859 edition. The quoted passage is from III, p. 109. Courtney’s introduction and Gutenberg’s publishing boilerplate are separate from Mill’s essay. The text is public domain in the United States; the lesson otherwise uses original paraphrase and clearly identified editorial examples.
Scholarly interpretation: David O. Brink, “Mill’s Moral and Political Philosophy,” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, especially §§3.1–3.10 on liberal principles, expression, harm, paternalism, and interpretive difficulties. This is a contextual analysis whose arguments remain open to evaluation, not a substitute for the primary work.
Authorship context: Dale E. Miller, “Harriet Taylor Mill,” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, especially §3.3 on On Liberty. It documents Mill’s acknowledgment and the uncertainty about assigning her a precise share of authorship.
Editorial standing: The entry reconstructs a philosophical argument. Claims about discussion, development, and institutional effects are presented as Mill’s reasoning, with objections and applications labeled as editorial. The lesson does not establish a modern policy’s empirical effectiveness, offer current legal advice, or claim that historical influence proves philosophical truth. Comparisons with other catalogue entries concern similarities and differences in their arguments, without asserting a chain of influence.